Corona Virus

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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Peg Leg wrote:Ah OS, you're missing the point. Global issue needs global solutions. The WHO is the global entity tasked with preemptive measures and crisis management globally. It doesn't help to try to turn the narrative of blame when the problem is has yet to peak.
Regarding globalism right now, being pragmatic does not change the idealism of it being right. In the most part I agree with what you're saying and it is likely to be what will happen, but it's not the right thing to do to save lives.
Not sure what you're talking about PC commentary for, say what you like, whenever you like, but if you put it out there prepare for others to do the same from their pov.
Sounds very noble until you start telling people they're callous or insensitive or whatever.
Make your points by all means but you lose credibility if you abuse somebody.
It's an attempt at bullying whether you realise it or not.
Not that anyone would get very far with me with that approach.
As for globalism it's not a panacea and can leave countries very exposed when something like a pandemic hits.
As I've said before idealism is a great concept until humans get involved so you have to be pragmatic.
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Oldschool wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Ah OS, you're missing the point. Global issue needs global solutions. The WHO is the global entity tasked with preemptive measures and crisis management globally. It doesn't help to try to turn the narrative of blame when the problem is has yet to peak.
Regarding globalism right now, being pragmatic does not change the idealism of it being right. In the most part I agree with what you're saying and it is likely to be what will happen, but it's not the right thing to do to save lives.
Not sure what you're talking about PC commentary for, say what you like, whenever you like, but if you put it out there prepare for others to do the same from their pov.
Sounds very noble until you start telling people they're callous or insensitive or whatever.
Make your points by all means but you lose credibility if you abuse somebody.
It's an attempt at bullying whether you realise it or not.
Not that anyone would get very far with me with that approach.
As for globalism it's not a panacea and can leave countries very exposed when something like a pandemic hits.
As I've said before idealism is a great concept until humans get involved so you have to be pragmatic.

so there's two questions outstanding for you OS, this one from 16th of December last:

"In your experience as a white person what racial discrimination have you been subjected to?"

and this one from yesterday

"has anyone ever told you that you're a callous pr!*k?"

any answer will do
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Oldschool
Cian Healy
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Ah OS, you're missing the point. Global issue needs global solutions. The WHO is the global entity tasked with preemptive measures and crisis management globally. It doesn't help to try to turn the narrative of blame when the problem is has yet to peak.
Regarding globalism right now, being pragmatic does not change the idealism of it being right. In the most part I agree with what you're saying and it is likely to be what will happen, but it's not the right thing to do to save lives.
Not sure what you're talking about PC commentary for, say what you like, whenever you like, but if you put it out there prepare for others to do the same from their pov.
Sounds very noble until you start telling people they're callous or insensitive or whatever.
Make your points by all means but you lose credibility if you abuse somebody.
It's an attempt at bullying whether you realise it or not.
Not that anyone would get very far with me with that approach.
As for globalism it's not a panacea and can leave countries very exposed when something like a pandemic hits.
As I've said before idealism is a great concept until humans get involved so you have to be pragmatic.

so there's two questions outstanding for you OS, this one from 16th of December last:

"In your experience as a white person what racial discrimination have you been subjected to?"

and this one from yesterday

"has anyone ever told you that you're a callous pr!*k?"

any answer will do
Keep pushing, won't get you anywhere tho'.
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Peg Leg
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Peg Leg »

I didn't say you were callous. I did however equate the separation of human toll and the politicking around it as callousness.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by bertlim »

The sooner the rugby is back the better.
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

China retaliates, surprise, surprise.

It's reported that Kim Jong Un sent a handwritten letter to Donald Trump today to express his displeasure.
Trump opened the letter which appeared to contain a single line coded message.

370HSSV - 0773H

Trump, unable to de-cypher the message, emailed it the FBI.
The FBI wisely decided that it was an international matter and advised the President that
he should consult with the CIA.

The CIA couldn't crack the code either but didn't want to upset Mr Trump.
So they contacted the MSS (Ministry of State Security in China) for help.

Almost immediately the reply came back.

*Tell The President that he's holding the message
*Upside Down.
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Oldschool wrote:China retaliates, surprise, surprise.

It's reported that Kim Jong Un sent a handwritten letter to Donald Trump today to express his displeasure.
Trump opened the letter which appeared to contain a single line coded message.

370HSSV - 0773H

Trump, unable to de-cypher the message, emailed it the FBI.
The FBI wisely decided that it was an international matter and advised the President that
he should consult with the CIA.

The CIA couldn't crack the code either but didn't want to upset Mr Trump.
So they contacted the MSS (Ministry of State Security in China) for help.

Almost immediately the reply came back.

*Tell The President that he's holding the message
*Upside Down.
Where is Kim Jong Un from?
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Local politics that affected the world
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/a ... 6?mode=amp
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ronk
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by ronk »

Hardly local. The Taiwan situation has been a major point of internal relations for as long as I can remember.

China were able to do that a long time ago. Now they are a superpower
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

ronk wrote:Hardly local. The Taiwan situation has been a major point of internal relations for as long as I can remember.

China were able to do that a long time ago. Now they are a superpower
More importantly, the Irish Times article makes it clear that the WHO chose to ignore the warnings raised by Taiwan.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by paddyor »

I see Trump has decreed that the Sun rise in the morning. LEADERSHIP!
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Ruckedtobits
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ruckedtobits »

As the noise increases about the malelvolent behaviour and intentions of China in relation to the evolution and spread of Covid19, it's worth bearing in mind that China had a Trade Surplus with the rest of the world in 2018 of more than $350 Bn. Their trading surplus with the US alone in 2019 was north of $250 Bn.

To promote the idea that China wants to shutdown the US economy, or that of any othern country in the west, is both illogical and pernicious. China has long been the most astute nation in strategic international affairs - right back to the 11th & 12th century. When China "is facing outwards", every strategic move in international affairs is conducted for the benefit of the Chinese leadership and Chinese people.

Turning off the supply of a $350 Bn surplus does not meet that criteria.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Logorrhea »

Ruckedtobits wrote:As the noise increases about the malelvolent behaviour and intentions of China in relation to the evolution and spread of Covid19, it's worth bearing in mind that China had a Trade Surplus with the rest of the world in 2018 of more than $350 Bn. Their trading surplus with the US alone in 2019 was north of $250 Bn.

To promote the idea that China wants to shutdown the US economy, or that of any othern country in the west, is both illogical and pernicious. China has long been the most astute nation in strategic international affairs - right back to the 11th & 12th century. When China "is facing outwards", every strategic move in international affairs is conducted for the benefit of the Chinese leadership and Chinese people.

Turning off the supply of a $350 Bn surplus does not meet that criteria.
Yeah but China.
Last edited by Logorrhea on April 23rd, 2020, 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ruckedtobits »

The increase in laboratory confirmed Covid19 cases of 1,944 located in Nursing homes is a new factor in the overall picture. As eloquently reported by George Lee this morning on RTE, the particular relevance of this fact is two-fold, viz:

a) The continued high prevelance of Covid19 in the community in general, and
b) The potential among Nursing Home residents for further significant mortality.

However, there may also be a further relevance in so far as many of these residents may have asymtomatic presentation of the infection, previously considered to be largely confined to young healthy adults. If this proves to be the case, it could mark a very significant turn in our understanding of the virus. As virologists and medical consultants examine these results, this may be a very important new element in our tactics to manage the impact of Covid19.

Further results for Lab tests in Monash Biomedical Institute in Australia about the efficacy of an already approved drug which could be used to treat the virus, are also good news. If this medication is validated in human tests, the availability of a useful and effective treatment in limited the multiplication of the virus in human tissue, will be a big leap forward in reducing the impact of Covid19.

Early days, but every scape of positive news is important now when pessimism is beginning to overtake the optimism on how we have coped thus far.
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

The difficulty for the authorities is that they are in bunker mentality mode.
This could be a very bad thing leading to paralysis.
Take an example.
Seismic activity indicates that there is more activity on the roads.
Time to clamp down even tighter seems to be the immediate reaction from the top.
They need to get rid of the paranoia and ask themselves, actually ask other people.
What would give rise to an increase in traffic.
There are a number of reasons that jump to mind and are bound to be others.
1. Internet shopping is increasing and companies that didn't use this facility are now doing so.
2. Companies that never carried PPE are now doing so. EG http://www.freetv.ie - scroll down the home page.
3. People who may have vacant properties and need to check on them, especially given the speed at which the"lockdown" was applied.
4. People who aren't compliant.
On item 4 there will always be people who think the rules don't apply to them.
3. Will tend to be infrequent and it really isn't a problem.
1 and 2 is likely to be the main contributor and let's hope so.
Our authorities need to look to other groups of expertise and experience even.
The Gardai, I'm sure, could give them some some insights.
Our authorities also need to be careful to ensure that the medicine doesn't kill the patient.
I'm nearly 68 and I'm going nowhere. There are a lot like me and older but that doesn't mean that younger people (with due care) can't have some of their freedoms restored.
What is happening in the nursing homes should not be allowed to derail what can be done for the rest of the population, particularly the young and healthy.
The younger population should be looked at as an asset.
The over 10k of known cases that have recovered are another, dare I say, growing asset.
The authorities need to step back and not jump to conclusions.
The fake news needs to stop too.
Our real mortality rate is nowhere near 5% and even that figure is being totally skewed by the number of deaths in the nursing homes.
The same can be said for R.
It's understandable that the authorities want to maintain a good level of compliance but compliance of itself should not be the goal.
More importantly they need to trust the people who have made bringing the epidemic under control.
That is the general population, most of whom have behaved responsibly.
Opportunity knocks it should not be wasted, trust US.
EDIT.
Just did a click and collect with Tesco.
They've now put a limit on the number of items per basket, that'll increase the number of orders and therefore cause an increase in traffic.
Instead of shopping once a fortnight I'm going to be shopping once a week, that's a 100% increase in my own travel load.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by blockhead »

President Gobshite now suggesting that you should inject disinfectant into your body to treat Coronavirus.
You go first Mr. President.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.4232563

I believe the message here is that there is no consensus that recovering from Covid19 confers immunity for a significant period of time.

...
Speaking at a press conference in Geneva, Dr Maria van Kerchief said: “There are a lot of countries that are suggesting using rapid diagnostic serological tests to be able to capture what they think will be a measure of immunity. Right now, we have no evidence the use of a serological test can show that an individual has immunity or is protected from reinfection.”
These antibody tests would be able to measure “seroprevalence” levels – but that indication of antibodies in somebody did not mean they were immune
...

Head of WHO’s emergencies programme Dr Mike Ryan said even if antibodies were effective there was little sign that large numbers of people had developed them, and were beginning to offer so-called “herd immunity” to the broader population.
“A lot of preliminary information coming to us right now would suggest quite a low percentage of population have seroconversion (to produce antibodies),” he added.

There was expectation that the majority in society may have developed antibodies, but the general evidence is pointing against that, “so it may not solve the problem of governments”.

...
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Question I'd like to hear an answer from WHO on.
Is there any (you'd expect a few simply because of testing errors etc) or preferably and far more significantly a lot of evidence to suggest that a LOT of people have become contaminated, meant infected for a second time?
Last edited by Oldschool on April 25th, 2020, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

What I’d like to hear from the WHO is what they can say about whether recovery confers immunity or not.
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Oldschool
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Oldschool »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:What I’d like to hear from the WHO is what they can say about whether recovery confers immunity or not.
They're dodging that question and you'd like to think they've been asked about it, in detail.
The fudge answer seems to stress more that we're not sure for how long immunity lasts for.

The authorities want certainty, they're like mathematicians, a bit unfair but

A mathematician and an engineer are sitting at a table drinking when a very beautiful woman walks in and sits down at the bar.

The mathematician sighs. "I'd like to talk to her, but first I have to cover half the distance between where we are and where she is, then half of the distance that remains, then half of that distance, and so on. The series is infinite. There'll always be some finite distance between us."

The engineer gets up and starts walking. "Ah, well, I figure I can get close enough for all practical purposes."

The delivery companies must not be working on Saturdays, the M50 is very quiet today.
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