Corona Virus

[heno]

One of the short-comings of the current decision-making process is that all those involved in it are totally devoid of the experiences of those who have become the subjects of their decisions.

You lost me here. Who are these entities of which you speak, robots? lizard people? oligarchs in ivory towers?

They go home every day to the same kind of house with the same kind of family. They can't see their elderly parents. They can't go to restaurants or gyms. They have to exercise within 2km. They do some if not most of their meetings remotely. All the while knowing their decisions can mean life or death to thousands of people.

Yes, their decisions can and should be criticised where appropriate and we can debate the rights and wrongs of the flow of information. But to suggest they are not being subjected to the same kind of stresses and strains as the rest of us is just wrong.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Oldschool]

It's a quiet day So,
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/educa ... descending

[Ruckedtobits]

Vlad has outlined the Course, but where will contact field sports figure? Where will Professional Sports with paying spectators figure? Will any ground have appropriate male Toilet facilities to ensure Social Spacing at half-time? Will alcohol sales be allowed at Sports venues? Can any professional sport on this island be undertaken economically without paying spectators?

These are the questions that some Sports Council officials considered this week with the leading figures from the variouscodess and the whispers that emanated after those conversations were not very positive for rugby.

Both the fundamental nature of our game and the economics surrounding the professional game did not give many answers that gave grounds for optimism. The weeks ahead will tell more.

[IanD]

Vlad has outlined the Course, but where will contact field sports figure? Where will Professional Sports with paying spectators figure? Will any ground have appropriate male Toilet facilities to ensure Social Spacing at half-time? Will alcohol sales be allowed at Sports venues? Can any professional sport on this island be undertaken economically without paying spectators?

These are the questions that some Sports Council officials considered this week with the leading figures from the variouscodess and the whispers that emanated after those conversations were not very positive for rugby.

Both the fundamental nature of our game and the economics surrounding the professional game did not give many answers that gave grounds for optimism. The weeks ahead will tell more.

Check out August.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0501/11361 ... p-details/

[Ruckedtobits]

And now the answers, rather clues - Stage 5 - subject to a significant number of caveats and medical clarifications and only behind closed doors.

Lots of consultations still to be had before we see any fixture list or TV schedule.

[kermischocolate]

I hope those in such positions recognise, or remember, how debilitating is life without anticipation.

Have you considered how debilitating it can be when you're dead? Just one post ago you were talking about how the government made a mistake in ignoring the care homes and now your willing to throw the vulnerable under the bus so you can get some kind of rush at a meeting? Hold on for another few weeks mate. Just be patient, accept that your not special, and a lot more people will still be alive at the end of this.

Logorrhea's first line can't be repeated enough.

[Oldschool]

I hope those in such positions recognise, or remember, how debilitating is life without anticipation.

Have you considered how debilitating it can be when you're dead? Just one post ago you were talking about how the government made a mistake in ignoring the care homes and now your willing to throw the vulnerable under the bus so you can get some kind of rush at a meeting? Hold on for another few weeks mate. Just be patient, accept that your not special, and a lot more people will still be alive at the end of this.

Logorrhea's first line can't be repeated enough.

It's a truism.
It's not relevant to the decision whether or not to lift restrictions except in terms of estimating the risk.
Our Taoiseach stated yesterday that people (I Ireland)
are 150 times more likely to die from COVID19 if they are over 70 years of age.
He said people under the age of 9 have died, that is almost unbelievable.
So policy should and is aimed at protecting the over 70s.
The real consideration then is simply this.
Will more than 9 people if restrictions are not lifted?
A lot more is the likely answer and that's before you even start to factor in the misery and everything else.

So remarks that are simply of the high moral ground variety add nothing to solving the problem and they make it even more difficult for the politicians to actually try to address the problem.

[kermischocolate]

It's a truism.
It's not relevant to the decision whether or not to lift restrictions except in terms of estimating the risk.
Our Taoiseach stated yesterday that people (I Ireland)
are 150 times more likely to die from COVID19 if they are over 70 years of age.
He said people under the age of 9 have died, that is almost unbelievable.
So policy should and is aimed at protecting the over 70s.
The real consideration then is simply this.
Will more than 9 people if restrictions are not lifted?
A lot more is the likely answer and that's before you even start to factor in the misery and everything else.

So remarks that are simply of the high moral ground variety add nothing to solving the problem and they make it even more difficult for the politicians to actually try to address the problem.

Well given I've spent the last few weeks speaking to hundreds of people with the virus and who have had multiple relatives die from it, watch my colleagues go to work not knowing if they are going to catch it or not, stressed and distressed by the numbers of people dying and are under pressure to return to work when they are still symptomatic, forgive me if i couldn't care less about how people are bored or inconvenienced or have had enough of lockdown.

So take your "high moral ground" and shove it. You can't simply isolate an age group.

[Oldschool]

It's a truism.
It's not relevant to the decision whether or not to lift restrictions except in terms of estimating the risk.
Our Taoiseach stated yesterday that people (I Ireland)
are 150 times more likely to die from COVID19 if they are over 70 years of age.
He said people under the age of 9 have died, that is almost unbelievable.
So policy should and is aimed at protecting the over 70s.
The real consideration then is simply this.
Will more than 9 people if restrictions are not lifted?
A lot more is the likely answer and that's before you even start to factor in the misery and everything else.

So remarks that are simply of the high moral ground variety add nothing to solving the problem and they make it even more difficult for the politicians to actually try to address the problem.

Well given I've spent the last few weeks speaking to hundreds of people with the virus and who have had multiple relatives die from it, watch my colleagues go to work not knowing if they are going to catch it or not, stressed and distressed by the numbers of people dying and are under pressure to return to work when they are still symptomatic, forgive me if i couldn't care less about how people are bored or inconvenienced or have had enough of lockdown.

So take your "high moral ground" and shove it. You can't simply isolate an age group.

I think you can and in this case you have to isolate an age group (of whom I count myself one) otherwise more lives will be lost and medical staff will come under even more pressure.
The high moral ground I'm talking about is to take the simple and obvious option of locking down the country indefinitely because otherwise people will die.
Doing nothing will mean death in the literal sense not just the economic sense.
The most obvious thing to do (as I see it) is to get a handle on the number of active cases in the country using tried and trusted sampling techniques.
Armed with that information the people making the decisions can make informed decisions.
Not only is this not being done it's being resisted, I simply don't understand this because we have the testing capacity to do it now.
There is disagreement regarding wearing face masks. The wearing of face masks should (and it seems likely this will happen, at last) be enthusiastically recommended.
The fear early on that demand for face masks would mean a shortage of supply meant that people were advised that the wearing of masks was unnecessary.
That decision cost some lives but it saved an awful lot more lives as I'm certain you understand.
A choice had to be made and it was the correct decision.
Other choices, a lot more complex, because cause and effect isn't immediate will also have to made.
There is only one way forward and it involves taking risks in a very controlled way. Doing nothing is not an option, it simply isn't.

[Jackie Brown]

Anyone hear tried wearing a facemask. I have, you end up touching your face constantly.

[FLIP]

Anyone hear tried wearing a facemask. I have, you end up touching your face constantly.

Lots of the evidence shows that it any benefits gained through covering your mouth with a mask are lost because of such behaviours.

[Oldschool]

Anyone hear tried wearing a facemask. I have, you end up touching your face constantly.

Yeah but it stops you picking your nose constantly.
There's evidence to suggest that there are two receptors (whatever that means) in your nostrils that CV19 likes to bind? to.
Disgusting habit, you (plural, non specific) should give it up.
It strikes me that it's not just hand hygiene but elements of facial hygiene that need to be addressed too.
Using the right mouthwash will reduce the viral load which is regarded as beneficial.
We're not called the great unwashed for nothing.

[Oldschool]

First case in France was originally reported to be on the 24th Jan. Go back a week and the infection could have occurred on the 20th January and probably earlier.

Here's an update.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... us-europe/

First reported in Ireland was originally reported to be on the 28th Feb, makes you wonder?

Highlights the need for random sampling to established what % of the population is currently infected.
When a reliable antibody test becomes available the % of the population that has been infected can also be estimated.

[Ruckedtobits]

The weekly GP assessments to the HSE of what was prevalent throughout January in Eastern part of Ireland noted (in 3 of four weekly reports) a high prevalenace of a 'Bronchial / Viral pneumonia' conditions, sometimes requiring two courses of antibiotics. The occasional blood tests taken looking for confirmation of Influenza largely proved negative. If there was an Antibody Test for Covid and if immunity continues beyond immedioate post-recovery period, it will be instructive to see if any of those diagnosed for 'Viral Preumonia' during December - February prove to have had Covid 19. Anecdotal evidence through IMO / ICGP suggested that a good proportion of those diagnosed in the period were active 30-45 year-olds.

[Oldschool]

The weekly GP assessments to the HSE of what was prevalent throughout January in Eastern part of Ireland noted (in 3 of four weekly reports) a high prevalenace of a 'Bronchial / Viral pneumonia' conditions, sometimes requiring two courses of antibiotics. The occasional blood tests taken looking for confirmation of Influenza largely proved negative. If there was an Antibody Test for Covid and if immunity continues beyond immedioate post-recovery period, it will be instructive to see if any of those diagnosed for 'Viral Preumonia' during December - February prove to have had Covid 19. Anecdotal evidence through IMO / ICGP suggested that a good proportion of those diagnosed in the period were active 30-45 year-olds.

A re-evaluation of the data would be very informative.

[Oldschool]

Just in from a click and collect to Tesco's.
Took a bit of a tour around town.
Not impressed with the number of people out and about and not wearing masks.
Fine maybe if the 2m real is being rigidly adhered to.
HSE bods need to get the finger out on telling people they need to wear masks otherwise in about seven days it will all kick off again.
Wearing masks does have its' issues for sure but it does stop straight hand to face contact, must surely lower the loading from air bourne particles.
Wearing gloves seems less important because it's all about hand hygiene whether you are wearing gloves or not. You're far more likely to keep your hands in your pockets if you are not wearing gloves.

[FLIP]

Wearing masks does have its' issues for sure but it does stop straight hand to face contact, must surely lower the loading from air bourne particles.

On the first point, it actually increases overall hand to face contact for most people as they are not trained to fit and wear them properly.

On the second point, it merely redirects airborne particles. The coronavirus is too small to be caught effectively by standard face masks - hence the need for medical staff to have specialist masks.

Also moisture trapped by the mask by your breath actually makes it more likely that the virus from an external source will be caught on the mask and breathed in.

[Oldschool]

Wearing masks does have its' issues for sure but it does stop straight hand to face contact, must surely lower the loading from air bourne particles.

On the first point, it actually increases overall hand to face contact for most people as they are not trained to fit and wear them properly.

On the second point, it merely redirects airborne particles. The coronavirus is too small to be caught effectively by standard face masks - hence the need for medical staff to have specialist masks.

Also moisture trapped by the mask by your breath actually makes it more likely that the virus from an external source will be caught on the mask and breathed in.

Just to tease out what you are saying.
How difficult is it to train your average Joe Citizen.
Is it just not a runner or could it be done.
It certainly does take a bit of getting used to.

On your third point, would the length of time you are wearing the mask make a difference.
Say less than 20 minutes say. (That's about the length of time I need for my trip to Tesco in case you're wondering)

I'd personally prefer to wear a mask so I wouldn't mind a campaign tell people how to do it right with the when, where, how long and do's/don'ts

[Oldschool]

The weekly GP assessments to the HSE of what was prevalent throughout January in Eastern part of Ireland noted (in 3 of four weekly reports) a high prevalenace of a 'Bronchial / Viral pneumonia' conditions, sometimes requiring two courses of antibiotics. The occasional blood tests taken looking for confirmation of Influenza largely proved negative. If there was an Antibody Test for Covid and if immunity continues beyond immedioate post-recovery period, it will be instructive to see if any of those diagnosed for 'Viral Preumonia' during December - February prove to have had Covid 19. Anecdotal evidence through IMO / ICGP suggested that a good proportion of those diagnosed in the period were active 30-45 year-olds.

Bit slow on the uptake here.
Are they (you) suggesting that it's significant as in unusual for 30-45 year olds to be be presenting with the issues/symptoms that are mentioned

[FLIP]

How difficult is it to train your average Joe Citizen.
Is it just not a runner or could it be done.
It certainly does take a bit of getting used to.

Seeing as we still have the same bunch of mouth breathers doing non essential travel and not maintaining social distancing, I'd say near on impossible.