The relegation of Lansdowne

[tate]

So its only the country lads that get scholarships to play for UCD?

Here's the list of scholarships from this year.

Cian Aherne (Limerick), Vasily Artemiev (Russia), Ben Barclay (Dublin), Wesley Carter (Tipperary), Brian Cawley (Wicklow), Eoghan Conran (Kildare), Andrew Cummiskey (Dublin), Cailbhe Doherty (Wicklow), Cathal Doyle (Kildare), Mark Flanagan (Westmeath), David Gilchrist (Dublin), Robert Kearney (Louth), Killian Lett (Wexford), Fergus McFadden (Kildare), Gerard Moran (Dublin), David Nyhan (Dublin), Conor Quinn (Kildare), Robert Shanley (Dublin), Jonathan Slattery (Dublin) and Gavin Telford (Laois).

This list consists of players on the 20's, J1's and 1sts. There a few from Dublin but the majority our from outside Dublin. Anyway the scholarship doesn't consist of personal money for the respective players. It covers the cost of acomodation, any fees, access to the High Performance Unit, etc. Its not a personal kitty for players like some other clubs are offering. Anyway the scholarship is run by UCD Sport and not UCD rugby club.

so if the country lads get free accommodation, what do the dublin lads get.... how come they gave super rob a scholarship, he's a pro and hasn't played for ucd this year

the same reason BOD is a member of UCD, to attract young players in.

[true blue 06]

Here's the list of scholarships from this year.

Cian Aherne (Limerick), Vasily Artemiev (Russia), Ben Barclay (Dublin), Wesley Carter (Tipperary), Brian Cawley (Wicklow), Eoghan Conran (Kildare), Andrew Cummiskey (Dublin), Cailbhe Doherty (Wicklow), Cathal Doyle (Kildare), Mark Flanagan (Westmeath), David Gilchrist (Dublin), Robert Kearney (Louth), Killian Lett (Wexford), Fergus McFadden (Kildare), Gerard Moran (Dublin), David Nyhan (Dublin), Conor Quinn (Kildare), Robert Shanley (Dublin), Jonathan Slattery (Dublin) and Gavin Telford (Laois).

This list consists of players on the 20's, J1's and 1sts. There a few from Dublin but the majority our from outside Dublin. Anyway the scholarship doesn't consist of personal money for the respective players. It covers the cost of acomodation, any fees, access to the High Performance Unit, etc. Its not a personal kitty for players like some other clubs are offering. Anyway the scholarship is run by UCD Sport and not UCD rugby club.[/quote]



so if the country lads get free accommodation, what do the dublin lads get.... how come they gave super rob a scholarship, he's a pro and hasn't played for ucd this year[/quote]

the same reason BOD is a member of UCD, to attract young players in.[/quote]

bod isn't on a scholarship ... rob is a great guy but they could have given it to someone who actually needs it and who actually plays for ucd more regularly

[billy whizz]

BOD isnt on a scholarship as he isnt a student. Kearney is so he has one

[true blue 06]

double header at donnybrook on saturday... @ 2pm its the mc corry cup final, lansdowne vs trinity then @ 4 pm its leinster 'a' v some russian team

[tate]

sorry, should have elaborated there. The reason UCD got BOD to sign for them is to show him off, say "look we produced BOD, you can be the next BOD if you come to us". As for kearnage, well i dont know why he's on a scholarship but i would imagine its along the same lines of BOD being a member of the club.

[simonno6]

Scholarships in UCD's are the same as Lansdowne/Rock/Wanderers paying their players. Theres just no two ways about it...

[leinsterlank]

To be honest I think anyone that believes that that kind of investment in u20s rugby is a worthwhile investment and is sustainable really haven't a clue. The bottom line is Lansdowne got relegated, these kids are not entering the professional ranks they are entering the amateur game, just because other clubs are doing it doesn't make it right. What these kids need is a dose of reality and not pocket money that they piss up against the nearest tree...

People wonder why the senior club game is dying, this thread would give you plenty of reasons why...

These "kids" are coming out of school, which is a near professional setup, as the next batch of professional hopefuls.EVry scolarship player is involved with leinster at some level when they leave school. The clubs pay these players to focus on rugby and the majority do.They use the money for accomodation,transport and food.All these things cost. CLubs pay tehse players because if they go on to professionalism the club receives a annual sum for producing these players. SO the money they spent is paid back with interest over time and ends up covering teh cost of those who don't make it. These "kids" come from schools where they are taught the values of conditioning,nutrition and training and on the whole have a very set mindset towards rugby principles. The few that piss it away and don't better themselves rarely receive a scholarship the next year if they arent performing. From another angle,if these guys are froma disadvantaged background where theyre parents cannot support them to live away from home they need this money and the parents need it to help them not just with copllege but with rugby.

The way the colleges excuse handing out money a 'scholarships' is ridiculous,money is money. It's a scholarship in any meaning of the word.

[simonno6]

To be honest I think anyone that believes that that kind of investment in u20s rugby is a worthwhile investment and is sustainable really haven't a clue. The bottom line is Lansdowne got relegated, these kids are not entering the professional ranks they are entering the amateur game, just because other clubs are doing it doesn't make it right. What these kids need is a dose of reality and not pocket money that they piss up against the nearest tree...

People wonder why the senior club game is dying, this thread would give you plenty of reasons why...

These "kids" are coming out of school, which is a near professional setup, as the next batch of professional hopefuls.EVry scolarship player is involved with leinster at some level when they leave school. The clubs pay these players to focus on rugby and the majority do.They use the money for accomodation,transport and food.All these things cost. CLubs pay tehse players because if they go on to professionalism the club receives a annual sum for producing these players. SO the money they spent is paid back with interest over time and ends up covering teh cost of those who don't make it. These "kids" come from schools where they are taught the values of conditioning,nutrition and training and on the whole have a very set mindset towards rugby principles. The few that piss it away and don't better themselves rarely receive a scholarship the next year if they arent performing. From another angle,if these guys are froma disadvantaged background where theyre parents cannot support them to live away from home they need this money and the parents need it to help them not just with copllege but with rugby.

The way the colleges excuse handing out money a 'scholarships' is ridiculous,money is money. It's a scholarship in any meaning of the word.

Not to mention the occassional night on the piss !

[tate]

rugby players drink?

[simonno6]

only on rare occassions...

such as, winning a match, losing a match, after a training session, after the gym and of course sunday nights in coppers...

[groundhog]

CLubs pay tehse players because if they go on to professionalism the club receives a annual sum for producing these players. SO the money they spent is paid back with interest over time and ends up covering teh cost of those who don't make it.

That is not why the clubs pay the players, do you actually know how much the IRFU pay out in the forms of grants to a club/school that aided in the development of an International player? It's very much a weighted system covering a player from u8 upwards and I doubt any money recieved by the clubs covers the cost of those that don't make it. These clubs pay these player because they have no youths programme/feeder school and it's the only way they can attract players, to be honest they be far better off developing a youths programme with the money they waste of 20s, but then that would be proactive and not reactive and would actually mean giving something back to the community...

[tate]

only on rare occassions...

such as, winning a match, losing a match, after a training session, after the gym and of course sunday nights in coppers...

that is nothing short of disgraceful.

At least when they draw they dont engage in such unbecoming behaviour.

Whatever next? Do these young gents curse as well?

[simonno6]

no... but they sleep around a lot.

[leinsterlank]

CLubs pay tehse players because if they go on to professionalism the club receives a annual sum for producing these players. SO the money they spent is paid back with interest over time and ends up covering teh cost of those who don't make it.

That is not why the clubs pay the players, do you actually know how much the IRFU pay out in the forms of grants to a club/school that aided in the development of an International player? It's very much a weighted system covering a player from u8 upwards and I doubt any money recieved by the clubs covers the cost of those that don't make it. These clubs pay these player because they have no youths programme/feeder school and it's the only way they can attract players, to be honest they be far better off developing a youths programme with the money they waste of 20s, but then that would be proactive and not reactive and would actually mean giving something back to the community...

if a player in on of these community clubs is offered money from another club and says this to the club, will the club match the offer to keep the player?Relying on loyalty to a club will not work in the current environment.Lansdowne has under age rugby up to U16's, they actually are or have just gone on a tour to dubai.Many players on the current 20's squad were lansdowne boys when they were younger. Currently it is hard for a club who has no home turf but for ballychorus up in stepaside to form a community in the area.

[jimmy the bone]

The reality is investing crazy sums of money into 20's is wholesale ridiculous. There are only ever four clubs at the top end of the 20's league ladder. Lansdowne, Trinity and College every other year it might be Rock or Mary's this year it was Rock last year Marys. So lets look at the first three Lansdowne relegated. UCD had a cracking season at first team level. Their j1's are in the 2nd division of their league and had an unremarkable season their 20's were the poorest College 20's team in years. Trinity did well in Div 2 their J1's struggled to field in the 2nd Division of the the league whilst their twenties finished 2nd in the league and were runners up in the cup.
Lansdowne year on year invest huge resources in their 20's with little long term return and that's a reality. If you were to pick out a Lansdowne 20's team from 3/4 years I can gaurantee you less than 20% of those players are still with the club. Now people will say; "but that's the norm" and I couldn't agree more. Clontarf spend a fraction of the money Lansdowne do on their 20's.For that reason they are not at the right end of the league ladder. You can also rest assured their twenties set up have as much of a fall off rate as any other club but by the same token it also produces as many players to their 1st squad as Willy Clancy does to Lansdowne. Whats my point? My point is giving money to under twenties for what ever reason is bullshit. Spend the money on paying players in your senior squad, your facilities, developing a youth set up that will develope players that will remain loyal to the club. Shannon, Garryowen, Cork Con all field at 20' level but you can rest assured they aren't spending stupid money on kids. Granted their twenties have a budget but nothing in comparison to what the likes of Lansdowne are spending. More importantly they are producing loyal club men because they not being paid at 18 to join the club. Paying young guys is encouraging a culture of payment for play when they are not worth it wait as Clontarf do till they are the finished article.

[msp]

UCD do pay their players. If your a student its called a scholarship if your not its well a payment. There is a very strict limit though on what the university can award as scholarships/ payment think its 5k for the year (not many on that mind,3 to 4 at most i'd say). Most clubs pay players something especially the top senior clubs and by the looks of things a lot more than UCD.

McIntyre (Marys)
Sheenan (Marys)
O'Donaghue (Clontarf)
Keatley (Clontarf)
O'Malley (Old Belvo)
McCarron (Landsdowne)

A random 6 ucd players who left last year. All involved with leinster, I'm sure rugby and game time etc played a part in it but i'm also sure money did as well.

I reply to Jimmy he's right the 1sts did have a great season but it cost the other teams in the club. UCD lost 9 players who would have been considered sarters ,if not close starters at the begining of the year ,plus a host of j1's some to moving clubs some to returning home some to giving up the game. UCD's 1st team panel was tiny this year, the 20's were raided for 4 of their best players and the j1's were in the same boat with players being called up, in other notes the other junior side performed excellently . But your right the fall off from 20's is incredible and really needs to be addressed by all clubs.

[Duff Paddy]

Well Lansdowne J3's won the Moran Cup yesterday so not all bad news for the lads, well done and well deserved.

[penfold34]

for jimmy the bone. rock won the 20s league and cup last season and league this season. pity lansdowne got reglegated. Investment in 20s in the club im in is all the talk. if you do not have a good 20s structure your 1st will suffer in the long term. so many 20s now play with 1st teams. i have friends that play in rock and they told me that in the last ail match v marys they had 11 under 20s playing, they won 49 20 or something

[jimmy the bone]

I'm not disputing the fact that 20's is vital to the success of the 1st team in any club. My argument is that sure invest money in your 20's set up however paying 20's is ridiculous. Some of those Marys 20's are being paid but as you said yourself they are playing AIL which makes them 1st team players that justifies paying them. Just remember the 20's set ups in most AIL 1 clubs particularily the consistent top four teams is functional. Thats all it needs to be. As far as I know the Mary's 20's this year folded.

[true blue 06]

looks like lansdowne's investment has paid off.... all ireland finalists and mc corry cup champions beating trinity 16-15 in dbrook. good result considering they're missing paddy mallon- they're best forward, nick mullen and dave kearney

Lansdowne clinch McCorry Cup...

Lansdowne captain Shane O'Dwyer lifts the McCorry Cup

A week is a long time in rugby, no doubt about that. Lansdowne's senior team were relegated from the AIB League's top flight last weekend but a victory on Saturday has given the Dublin 4 club plenty of hope for the future.

Lansdowne's talented Under-20 side survived the concession of an injury-time try to win an entertaining McCorry Cup decider and end their season on a high.

It has been a rewarding one for Lansdowne's players, a few of them gained international honours and they also reached the All-Ireland Under-20 final which they narrowly lost to UL Bohemians.

Outside centre Lorcan Kavanagh, a player who has gained valuable experience in the AIB League this season, proved to be the match winner as he landed three penalties and converted out-half Shane Gahan's second half try.

Dublin University trailed by 6-3 at half-time with Kavanagh landing two early kicks to a single effort from Trinity captain Chris Jebb.

Ireland Under-19 international Gahan wormed his way over for a 55th-minute try, beating two tacklers on the way to score under the posts and allow Kavanagh stretch Lansdowne's lead to 10 points.

Trinity were right back in the hunt when a crossfield kick bounced kindly for full-back Tim McCoy to cross the whitewash. Jebb missed the conversion however and that was to prove costly.

Kavanagh gave Lansdowne some comfort again, with ten minutes of normal time remaining, when he knocked over his third penalty success.

Willie Clancy's side looked set to see out the win but their nerves jangled in deepest injury-time when Trinity centre Conor Colclough got over in the left corner after a well-worked overlap.

Jebb was on target with the conversion kick, dramatically making it a one-point game, but referee Peter Dennehy blew the final whistle seconds later to confirm Lansdowne as worthy champions.

LANSDOWNE: M O'Malley; S O'Dwyer, L Kavanagh, S Kelly, J Sparks; S Gahan, M Healy; I Leonard, T Burns, R Murphy, W Earle, M Waters, A Byrne, B Horan, B McKeever

Replacements used: S Molle for Cassin (32 mins), R Reilly for Molle (64)

DUBLIN UNIVERSITY: T McCoy; C Jebb, C Colclough, C Coyle, C Murphy; H Murphy, M Reidy; C Goode, M Murdoch, J Gethings, C McDonnell, P Byrne, C McGinn, J Iliff, S La Valia

Replacements used: R Brady for Coyle (48 mins), S Bell for Reidy, C Suiter for McGinn (both 61), P McCabe for McCoy (67), D O'Riordan for Byrne (79)

Referee: Peter Dennehy (ARLB)