Leinsterfans.com Election Poll

[sarah_lennon]

Do you mean income tax levels?

Yes when I said "at source" I meant PAYE.

This was kept low as a cynical electioneering tactic

[Leinsterman]

Do you mean income tax levels?

Yes when I said "at source" I meant PAYE.

This was kept low as a cynical electioneering tactic

So you'd advocate raising income tax and then cutting taxs on VAT, duty etc?

[sarah_lennon]

Do you mean income tax levels?

Yes when I said "at source" I meant PAYE.

This was kept low as a cynical electioneering tactic

So you'd advocate raising income tax and then cutting taxs on VAT, duty etc?

No. I think we should tax kiddies shoes.

Our VAT rates aren't exceptionally high at the higher rate, the lower rate needs looking at.

Costs aren't necessarily down to VAT alone, anti-competiveness, rent & insurance are all playing their part. The minimum wage argument is a red herring.

Our income tax contribution is too low but that needs to be strategically raised (over years) so as not to completely destroy consumer spending. There needs to be more tax bands imo, up to 4.

The problem is the tax take was too low when there was nigh on full employment

(not to mention a €1bn training & employment agency at a time of full employment!)

[Broken Wing]

Labour always get hit with the "higher taxes/in bed with the unions" accusation. Under FF I'm paying more in stealth taxes than ever before. I paid Stamp Duty and now they want property tax. I have two houses (through an untimely inheritance rather than an attempt at investment) and paid duty on both but now I also have to pay €200/year for the privilege of having a 2nd house. I also have to pay the PRTB every year to have my house registered with them and in return I get no protection as a landlord but I do get a lenghty administrative battle to have them correct the address from 56 (which doesn't exist) to 6.

While FF were dipping their hands into my pocket at every available opportunity to cover their spending on expert reports, consultants, make up, hairdressers, government jet trips and limousines, they were also promising the unions anything and everything they wanted through the partnership agreements. Pay increases linked to benchmarking and then the benchmarking bodies are headed up by the unions so nobody misses out on their pay increases which have to be paid for by generous me.

The best part, of course, is that I'm a self employed PAYE worker and my PRSI "contribution" has been increased but if I find myself out of work I'm entitled to €0 to live on.

FF have been robbing the PAYE worker to pay for the unions and the good life and we're supposed to be more afraid of Labour?

[Leinsterman]

the lower rate needs looking at.

It does in its hole. Look at what happened when the upper rate was increased by 0.5%.

Costs aren't necessarily down to VAT alone, anti-competiveness, rent & insurance are all playing their part. The minimum wage argument is a red herring.

I agree with that. Rent is the biggie.

Our income tax contribution is too low but that needs to be strategically raised (over years) so as not to completely destroy consumer spending. There needs to be more tax bands imo, up to 4.

The problem is that not enough people are paying tax. I'm already contributing about 40% of my salary in income tax. How anyone can say that this is a low income tax country is beyond me. I'm not what one would call a "corporate fat cat". You don't need to be earning a large multiple of the average industrial wage to be paying that % of wage in income tax.

The problem is the tax take was too low when there was nigh on full employment

Definitely

(not to mention a €1bn training & employment agency at a time of full employment!)

Well yes, this was a disgrace. How many % points of income tax does €1bn equte to?


At least no sane person is calling for the "wealth tax".
Arthur Morgan stated that this would even apply to a business. So if I had a business that was rated at being worth €2m, I would pay a 1% wealth tax on it every year, i.e. €20,000.
The business might not be making a profit but I would still be expected to pay the tax. What a load of guff. Talk about destroying any incentive for people to start businesses and create jobs.

[Leinsterman]

Interestingly, this poll currently seems to closely match the national polls!

[sarah_lennon]

the lower rate needs looking at.

It does in its hole. Look at what happened when the upper rate was increased by 0.5%.

Lowering the lower rate, it's a lot higher than other EU countries

[Leinsterman]

Lowering the lower rate, it's a lot higher than other EU countries

OK, sounds good. I'll agree with that.
Where do you stand on water and property charges though?
Propert ycharges annoy me, simply because if water charges are introduced, we will be paying for services such as water, electricity, gas, bin charges etc so where is the justification in the property charge that is supposed to cover these?
Hospitals? Already covered by the levy
Schools? Possibly.
Roads, potholes etc.... that's what the motor tax is supposed to be for, isn't it?

[Peg Leg]

Lowering the lower rate, it's a lot higher than other EU countries

OK, sounds good. I'll agree with that.
Where do you stand on water and property charges though?
Propert ycharges annoy me, simply because if water charges are introduced, we will be paying for services such as water, electricity, gas, bin charges etc so where is the justification in the property charge that is supposed to cover these?
Hospitals? Already covered by the levy
Schools? Possibly.
Roads, potholes etc.... that's what the motor tax is supposed to be for, isn't it?

I'm going to get hammered for this but, that levy was such a scam. The USC has completely pulled the rug from under anyone with a medical card (ie. Me). The Health Levy was introduced to all excluding medical card holders (which made sense it been a health levy), but when they upped the rates and changed it to a USC they pulled the medical card exemption. This has taken a further €2,500 from me, on top of the my salary been cut (happy to be here) by 27%, I don't know how much more I can take.

It's not that I do not want to contribute, it's the way it was done that bugs me.

And before you ask or point the finger- the peg is not the reason for the card I have a medical file that looks down its nose at lever arch folders!

[CRAZYDAVE]

I'm talking from an overall tax view -that's what affects the man on the street. It's all well and good to make promises to reverse the cuts already implemented but someone has to pay for them (savings from wastage in the system if tackled won't be enough).

So what you are saying is that a labour Minister for Finance will increase the tax burden without controlling spending despite the fact that the only time we had a labour minister for finance he decreased the tax burden by, in part, controlling spending.

Don't worry about it DC.

People are right to demand cost efficiencies, "more bangs for their buck", improvements in service provision, etc, ... and I believe that we are a long way from delivering this. But I believe that the wrong way to push the necessary change through is to alienate sections of society, who will only harden their stance to change if they feel they are being victimised.

Sure... We're all busy. But how busy are we when you look at it forensically

But in this case, it's the same auld mantra that we've come to know and love.... I'm all for change.... as long as someone else is paying for it.

[Sea_point]

You are right, but thats how our system works isnt it? The alternative is to vote for the party first, and candidate second. Isnt that what re-elects FF year after year after year and also got us into this mess?

I disagree: people vote for FF year after year, generation after generation because they have been in power (or the candidates father has been in power) and has engaged in gombeenism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRYzqvRtww

This is the kind of mentality we have to fight. Local government represents local issues, national does national issues. The focus on local is how FF have managed to be in power for most of the last 70 years without ever actually having policy. Their only real core value is to get power. They stand for nothing else. Look at Bertie, not a notion of political philosophy in his brain, but he was a fixer. Forever pulling strokes. See Ray Burke, Charlie McCreevy etc. etc.

The fact that a creton like Healy-Rae can be repeatedly inflicted upon the Dail is a reflection on the fact that there are way, way to many constituancies and representatives for such a small populace (116 for 2 million voters or one TD per 12,561 voters, the US has 435 for 82.5 million or one Rep per 189,655 voters). That gombeen gets elected on the back of less than 15% first preferences FFS(-6k votes).

Merge some constituencies, lose some seats and you will end up with more fluid and effective representation instead of local councillers in government blocking progress because of local interests...

With regards to FG turning on Labour, think it's the right thing to do if they as a party believe that a FG government is the best option rather than settling for a chance of sharing power. FG has a real opportunity if they can communicate cogently to the voters. TBH I'd be more concerned about the electorate's ability to see through the sh*tfest that will start from tomorrow than the prospect of FG in power..

I see that there are some still intending to vote FF, I'd love to know the rationale behind their thinking...

[Hickiefan]

You are right, but thats how our system works isnt it? The alternative is to vote for the party first, and candidate second. Isnt that what re-elects FF year after year after year and also got us into this mess?

I disagree: people vote for FF year after year, generation after generation because they have been in power (or the candidates father has been in power) and has engaged in gombeenism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRYzqvRtww

This is the kind of mentality we have to fight. Local government represents local issues, national does national issues. The focus on local is how FF have managed to be in power for most of the last 70 years without ever actually having policy. Their only real core value is to get power. They stand for nothing else. Look at Bertie, not a notion of political philosophy in his brain, but he was a fixer. Forever pulling strokes. See Ray Burke, Charlie McCreevy etc. etc.

The fact that a creton like Healy-Rae can be repeatedly inflicted upon the Dail is a reflection on the fact that there are way, way to many constituancies and representatives for such a small populace (116 for 2 million voters or one TD per 12,561 voters, the US has 435 for 82.5 million or one Rep per 189,655 voters). That gombeen gets elected on the back of less than 15% first preferences FFS(-6k votes).

Merge some constituencies, lose some seats and you will end up with more fluid and effective representation instead of local councillers in government blocking progress because of local interests...

With regards to FG turning on Labour, think it's the right thing to do if they as a party believe that a FG government is the best option rather than settling for a chance of sharing power. FG has a real opportunity if they can communicate cogently to the voters. TBH I'd be more concerned about the electorate's ability to see through the sh*tfest that will start from tomorrow than the prospect of FG in power..

I see that there are some still intending to vote FF, I'd love to know the rationale behind their thinking...

100% with you on the numbers. How do we get the turkeys to vote for Christmas though?

[fourthirtythree]

Lowering the lower rate, it's a lot higher than other EU countries

OK, sounds good. I'll agree with that.
Where do you stand on water and property charges though?
Propert ycharges annoy me, simply because if water charges are introduced, we will be paying for services such as water, electricity, gas, bin charges etc so where is the justification in the property charge that is supposed to cover these?
Hospitals? Already covered by the levy
Schools? Possibly.
Roads, potholes etc.... that's what the motor tax is supposed to be for, isn't it?

The Levy should be renamed the "Bailing out foreign banks levy". It is not a universal social charge as all the services supposed to be covered by it are actually being cut. And we have to pay for water and stop pretending we don't have to.

[Leinsterman]

The Levy should be renamed the "Bailing out foreign banks levy". It is not a universal social charge as all the services supposed to be covered by it are actually being cut. And we have to pay for water and stop pretending we don't have to.

Hold on, I'm not one of the hand-wringers who are calling for charges on everything.
That was the point of my post. We are taxed on our income and then we pay for our services.
Now we can expect to be charged for more of the services on top of our income tax and the government say that it is necessary because it "ain't free".
Water is the perfect example. We're already paying for it through taxes yet they want us to pay more for it.
Of course, plenty of people are already paying water charges.
What's also galling is how the excuse of "everyone else in Europe is paying for it" or "EU directives tell us X, Y and Z" are rolled out to attempt to justify everything that is done here.

[fourthirtythree]

The Levy should be renamed the "Bailing out foreign banks levy". It is not a universal social charge as all the services supposed to be covered by it are actually being cut. And we have to pay for water and stop pretending we don't have to.

Hold on, I'm not one of the hand-wringers who are calling for charges on everything.
That was the point of my post. We are taxed on our income and then we pay for our services.
Now we can expect to be charged for more of the services on top of our income tax and the government say that it is necessary because it "ain't free".
Water is the perfect example. We're already paying for it through taxes yet they want us to pay more for it.
Of course, plenty of people are already paying water charges.
What's also galling is how the excuse of "everyone else in Europe is paying for it" or "EU directives tell us X, Y and Z" are rolled out to attempt to justify everything that is done here.

Sure, we're paying for water out of central taxation. I've no problem with it being separated out and paying for it under a water charge. We managed to hide it for years. My point is that we're pretending things like our "USC" are for one purpose rather than admitting it all goes into the pot and out to the ECB without touching the bottom.

[Leinsterman]

My point is that we're pretending things like our "USC" are for one purpose rather than admitting it all goes into the pot and out to the ECB without touching the bottom.

Oh yeah, I agree with you on that one.

[sheepshagger]

February 25th is Polling Day.

[Peg Leg]

FF still polling at 15% here, roughly what they'll get in the general election! Ireland really is a country of religion and politics with a very blurry line between the two!

Not all voters of johng's ilk are compu-capable, so i would actualy expect the numbers to be higher!

[johng]

FF still polling at 15% here, roughly what they'll get in the general election! Ireland really is a country of religion and politics with a very blurry line between the two!

Not all voters of johng's ilk are compu-capable, so i would actualy expect the numbers to be higher!

I have been called many things in my time. But FF Voter?
That's down there with paedophile.

This will be my 10th general election, and NEVER, EVER, have I even considered voting FF

I'd sooner vote for Gerry Adams! And I don't say that lightly.

[fourthirtythree]

I'd sooner vote for Gerry Adams! And I don't say that lightly.

I take that seriously too, and I would too, but NOT Mary Lou. I'd spoil my vote even if they fined you for it sooner than vote for her.