Ireland 6 Nations 2018

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wixfjord
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by wixfjord »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
wixfjord wrote:That’s complete lies from Schmidt, let’s call a spade a spade.

We all know the reason Zebo isn’t picked, and it ain’t a perceived bad performance in one game. Schmidt has never picked solely on form.

He could’ve just said ‘the reason he’s not picked is because he’s moving and I want to give other guys games. He might’ve been picked had he been staying, and he still might be picked if we need him, but he has made his bed’
Totally disagree with your assessment @wixfjord and agree with JS view that Zebo does not currently deserve selection on basis of form and game against Racing 92 in Paris was a good example.

Focussed and playing solely for his team, at the top of his game, Zebo is an international winger. However, he is neither focussed enough nor always dedicated enough to his team, Munster or Ireland, to warrant automatic selection. On the other hand, I would have Earls, when fit, among my first three names on the Irish team sheet alongside Sexton and Furlong.
Schmidt has never picked on form alone. We know that by now. In this squad alone you have guys like John Ryan, RK and POM who haven't been performing well lately. Giving one game as an example is dishonest from him.

We all know the reason he hasn't been picked, and it's not form.

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olaf the fat
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by olaf the fat »

The only fibbing by Joe was which of Zebo's performance in France he was talking about. He mention the Racing game, he meant his L Equipe interview.

I dont get the fuss. Player says the successful game plan does not suit him - then does not get picked as part of that successful game plan, especially when there are plenty of other X factor options without the self indulgence.
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simonokeeffe
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by simonokeeffe »

Has any national coach picked on form alone though? Not to be pedantic but theres proven ability, potential, national form v provincial form, gameplan, team/bench balance etc
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wixfjord
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by wixfjord »

olaf the fat wrote:The only fibbing by Joe was which of Zebo's performance in France he was talking about. He mention the Racing game, he meant his L Equipe interview.

I dont get the fuss. Player says the successful game plan does not suit him - then does not get picked as part of that successful game plan, especially when there are plenty of other X factor options without the self indulgence.
Oh I think he's 100% correct not to pick him, but saying to the media that he's not picking Zebo 'on form' when we all know that's not the case isn't great.

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suisse
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by suisse »

Obviously I've nothing to back this up with, but I know - and so do all of you - that if Zebo had signed a new contract with Munster and the IRFU, he would be in the squad. I'm glad he's not but there's no way this is a form issue.

wixfjord
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by wixfjord »

Also Schmidt spoke about 'needing to see form at the time of selection'.

Eh Joey Carbery?!

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CiaranIrl
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by CiaranIrl »

Let's assume for the moment that the only reason he's not in the squad is that he's leaving. Entirely possible, but I don't personally think it's the only reason. But anyway, let's assume. If he comes out and says that, then he's also saying that Larmour or McFadden don't deserve to be there on merit. What kind of message is that to give from a head coach?
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paddyor
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by paddyor »

wixfjord wrote:That’s complete lies from Schmidt, let’s call a spade a spade.

We all know the reason Zebo isn’t picked, and it ain’t a perceived bad performance in one game. Schmidt has never picked solely on form.

He could’ve just said ‘the reason he’s not picked is because he’s moving and I want to give other guys games. He might’ve been picked had he been staying, and he still might be picked if we need him, but he has made his bed’
It's not a lie though. I know how you feel about stats but his attacking is fairly aneamic(few def beaten, few clean breaks) and he's 20 turnovers so far this season. Schmidt has covered himself in case he needs injury cover. Bowe & Trimble are past it and Gilroy and Byrne are injured. I think the last one left is Dave Kearney.

He does have 6 tries (and 0 assists) but we already know he can bang in a couple in a BP romp.
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paddyor
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by paddyor »

suisse wrote:Obviously I've nothing to back this up with, but I know - and so do all of you - that if Zebo had signed a new contract with Munster and the IRFU, he would be in the squad. I'm glad he's not but there's no way this is a form issue.
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Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles

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Logorrhea
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Logorrhea »

suisse wrote:Schmidt's reason for not selecting Zebo is dishonest, and I don't think anyone could say otherwise.
Not disagreeing with you here but the alternative of refusing to answer would not be acceptable either. Journos and twitter users do not accept the refusal. The journos would push, he'd have to become entrenched in his refusal to select xfactor and the headlines would be about Schmidt's refusal to address the issue in a tense press conference. This would be followed by editorials about Schmidt's deteriorating relationship with the media, rumors from within the IRFU about Schmidt etc. Twitter would be going mad. Look at Martin O'Neills latest headline.

I mean what if Joe had actually told the truth. What if he said that he didn't pick xfactor because xfactor had opted out of the world cup in order to earn more cash, and now he has two years to find a replacement? Would that response be accepted? It would in its shite.

We have created a situation where the non-answer or the lie is the only acceptable answer because anything else is trouble to the responder. Sean O'Brien opened his mouth and voices an opinion on the Lions and he was in trouble, he supposedly shouldn't have said anything. Joe opens his mouth and he's a liar, he shouldn't have said anything. Chris Henry voices an opinion about Munster and he's a hypocrite, he shouldn't have said anything. POM voices an opinion about his teammate and he's supporting Munster's policy on signing players he had nothing to do with.

They all lie all the time, or just offer bland answers because when they tell the truth we crucify them for it. Our problem here seems to be that we want a better lie.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Joe said that Beirne wasn't picked because he's with the Scarlets, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that that undermines Roux or Dillane.

Apologies if this point has already been made, I was too lazy to check.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by jimbobjoe »

Logorrhea wrote:
suisse wrote:Schmidt's reason for not selecting Zebo is dishonest, and I don't think anyone could say otherwise.
Not disagreeing with you here but the alternative of refusing to answer would not be acceptable either. Journos and twitter users do not accept the refusal. The journos would push, he'd have to become entrenched in his refusal to select xfactor and the headlines would be about Schmidt's refusal to address the issue in a tense press conference. This would be followed by editorials about Schmidt's deteriorating relationship with the media, rumors from within the IRFU about Schmidt etc. Twitter would be going mad. Look at Martin O'Neills latest headline.

I mean what if Joe had actually told the truth. What if he said that he didn't pick xfactor because xfactor had opted out of the world cup in order to earn more cash, and now he has two years to find a replacement? Would that response be accepted? It would in its shite.

We have created a situation where the non-answer or the lie is the only acceptable answer because anything else is trouble to the responder. Sean O'Brien opened his mouth and voices an opinion on the Lions and he was in trouble, he supposedly shouldn't have said anything. Joe opens his mouth and he's a liar, he shouldn't have said anything. Chris Henry voices an opinion about Munster and he's a hypocrite, he shouldn't have said anything. POM voices an opinion about his teammate and he's supporting Munster's policy on signing players he had nothing to do with.

They all lie all the time, or just offer bland answers because when they tell the truth we crucify them for it. Our problem here seems to be that we want a better lie.
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Experimental
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Experimental »

Schimdt isn't lying tho. I think we're all in agreement that Zebos dodgy celebrations are bad form!

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CiaranIrl
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by CiaranIrl »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Joe said that Beirne wasn't picked because he's with the Scarlets, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that that undermines Roux or Dillane.

Apologies if this point has already been made, I was too lazy to check.
He didn't say that in fairness. He said he didn't pick him because (i) if he came to Spain, he would have to go back for the weekend to play, and it was too complicated, and (ii) Because he has nearly twice as many minutes as the other second row options. He has 1450 minutes or something and Toner is next on 900.
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simonokeeffe
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by simonokeeffe »

People have to remember Joe has a horrendous Leinster bias, Beirne left Leinster and is now going to join Munster, so obviously Joe is going to hire goons to hit him in the knee with a lead pipe
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Xanthippe
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Xanthippe »

CiaranIrl wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Joe said that Beirne wasn't picked because he's with the Scarlets, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that that undermines Roux or Dillane.

Apologies if this point has already been made, I was too lazy to check.
He didn't say that in fairness. He said he didn't pick him because (i) if he came to Spain, he would have to go back for the weekend to play, and it was too complicated, and (ii) Because he has nearly twice as many minutes as the other second row options. He has 1450 minutes or something and Toner is next on 900.
That's wrong though - Beirne has 1350 minutes, Toner has 1140 and Henderson has 1050
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

CiaranIrl wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Joe said that Beirne wasn't picked because he's with the Scarlets, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that that undermines Roux or Dillane.

Apologies if this point has already been made, I was too lazy to check.
He didn't say that in fairness. He said he didn't pick him because (i) if he came to Spain, he would have to go back for the weekend to play, and it was too complicated, and (ii) Because he has nearly twice as many minutes as the other second row options. He has 1450 minutes or something and Toner is next on 900.
Oh come on,that's ridicuously pedantic.

Both of those things are...because he's with the Scarlets.

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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Oldschool »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Joe said that Beirne wasn't picked because he's with the Scarlets, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that that undermines Roux or Dillane.

Apologies if this point has already been made, I was too lazy to check.
He didn't say that in fairness. He said he didn't pick him because (i) if he came to Spain, he would have to go back for the weekend to play, and it was too complicated, and (ii) Because he has nearly twice as many minutes as the other second row options. He has 1450 minutes or something and Toner is next on 900.
Oh come on,that's ridicuously pedantic.

Both of those things are...because he's with the Scarlets.
It's not pedantic, but you are right that it's because he's with the Scarlets.
Joe is simply emphasising, once again, that he will give home based players first dibs unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.
That's how you keep your home based players at home.
The only way that could change MIGHT be if the Pro14 teams all signed up to a player release agreement similar to what Ireland has with the provinces and even at that I wouldn't bet on it because there are other issues.
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ronk
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by ronk »

This shouldnt be controversial. There's form and history.

It's a black mark against Zebo that he's allowed (caused) there to be a fuss that's disruptive.

The policy isn't new and isn't Joe's, he's just the guy tasked with enforcing it. He has the trust that he could make an exception, but he doesnt want to play that card (or has to toe the line publicly).

Zebo is not strategically critical, he didnt even make the Lions.

wixfjord
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by wixfjord »

ronk wrote:This shouldnt be controversial. There's form and history.

It's a black mark against Zebo that he's allowed (caused) there to be a fuss that's disruptive.

The policy isn't new and isn't Joe's, he's just the guy tasked with enforcing it. He has the trust that he could make an exception, but he doesnt want to play that card (or has to toe the line publicly).

Zebo is not strategically critical, he didnt even make the Lions.
There's nothing controversial about dropping Zebo because he's going to France and has had some stupid recent stuff to say.

But Schmidt has chosen to give the reason as his form in one game. That's either blatantly untrue, or else it's incredibly out of character for Schmidt.

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