The Province Formerly Known As Munster 2018-19

[johng]

PMRM. JoaT

[cormac]

Joey Carbery must be both appalled and delighted to be behind JJ Hanrahan at the moment. Appalled as Hanrahan is more miss than hit (as he's ably demonstrated in the first half in Glasgow) and delighted because the Munster pack is getting demolished at Scotstoun and Dan Carter at his peak couldn't help them right now.

Rather bizarre too that when Billy Holland went off he was replaced by Wycherly and not Tadhg Beirne.

[blockhead]

Glasgow 22-0 Munster at HT. Munster have barely had the ball.

[johng]

Glad we are not playing in Glasgow this season

[blockhead]

25-10 to Glasgow. Wind was a major factor in the game.
Munster had all the ball in the 2nd half. But could they turn it into points? Could they fup!
Same oul Munster, give them enough ball and they'll balls it up.
Joey came on, did nothing of note.

[deco]

PMRM. JoaT

This ^^

It looks like the province formerly known as Munster started too many local lads.

[elephantman]

25-10 to Glasgow. Wind was a major factor in the game.
Munster had all the ball in the 2nd half. But could they turn it into points? Could they fup!
Same oul Munster, give them enough ball and they'll balls it up.
Joey came on, did nothing of note.

I thought Joey did reasonably well. He really is a terrific passer of the ball. Maybe passing is a skill wasted in Munster, time will tell.

He will definitely improve Munster, no doubt about it.

It stings to see him in a red jersey. Just looks wrong.

Will never forgive Joe for sticking his nose in

[johng]

Suprised we don't have this already but interesting match last night to start it off, JJ was dire, Carberry up against it coming on did ok but nothing great. If Carberry is the great hope why hasn't he started? He's there to get time at 10.

we do

[johng]

Van Grann didn't look a bit happy after

[tomthefan]

Van Grann didn't look a bit happy after

I flicked over to the Ulster game to see the final few minutes.
Cooney had a very interesting final few minutes.
Looks a more reliable lace kicker than Sexton too if you ask me.

[OTT]

Van Grann didn't look a bit happy after

I flicked over to the Ulster game to see the final few minutes.
Cooney had a very interesting final few minutes.
Looks a more reliable lace kicker than Sexton too if you ask me.

Would you start him for Ireland over Murray for his place kicking?

Interesting Tom.

[tomthefan]

No I said he looks like a more reliable (p)lace kicker than Sexton, not Murray.
It was just an observation, don't know why you needed to put words in my mouth.
Sexton seems to miss his share of kickable ones that's all.
Even the fantastic long dg in Paris would have been moot if he hadn't missed a
straightforward kick earlier.
At the same time I haven't seen enough of Cooney to say he's the real deal
as a kicker but what I have seen is very good especially in pressure situations

[Oldschoolsocks]

No I said he looks like a more reliable (p)lace kicker than Sexton, not Murray.
It was just an observation, don't know why you needed to put words in my mouth.
Sexton seems to miss his share of kickable ones that's all.
Even the fantastic long dg in Paris would have been moot if he hadn't missed a
straightforward kick earlier.
At the same time I haven't seen enough of Cooney to say he's the real deal
as a kicker but what I have seen is very good especially in pressure situations

so Conor Murray to 10 and Cooney to 9 then?

[tomthefan]

If you want to play Murray at 10, don't let me stop you.

[Oldschoolsocks]

If you want to play Murray at 10, don't let me stop you.

fairy snuff, I thought that was where you were trying to go

[TerenureJim]

No I said he looks like a more reliable (p)lace kicker than Sexton, not Murray.
It was just an observation, don't know why you needed to put words in my mouth.
Sexton seems to miss his share of kickable ones that's all.
Even the fantastic long dg in Paris would have been moot if he hadn't missed a
straightforward kick earlier.
At the same time I haven't seen enough of Cooney to say he's the real deal
as a kicker but what I have seen is very good especially in pressure situations

Sexton has a glut of medals and has delivered time and again in high profile games, his kicking stats are seriously high end, would be better if he gamed them by not attempting some real challenging kicks IMO to mind the stats but he never backs down, Cooney is good and improving but plays in a different position, has never been in a comparable pressure situation to Sexton and has achieved exactly zero in professional rugby to date.

[tomthefan]

The kicks that I remember Sexton missing weren't ones that looked the most difficult.
They were the sort of ones you'd never see a Leigh Halfpenny or a Chris Paterson miss, that's all.

[Oldschool]

Just looking at the highlights of the first half against Glasgow.
JJ had a bit of a mare, maybe Munster and Carbs have got it right after all.
However it is early in the season so maybe the kangaroo courts should be parked for a few more games.
It's going to be a big season for a few players in the different provinces, will they be able to handle the pressure?

[dropkick]

Just looking at the highlights of the first half against Glasgow.
JJ had a bit of a mare, maybe Munster and Carbs have got it right after all.
However it is early in the season so maybe the kangaroo courts should be parked for a few more games.
It's going to be a big season for a few players in the different provinces, will they be able to handle the pressure?

I don't think it's too early to judge JJ. I was on the JJ bandwagon for years. My logic was solid though. He came second in the U20 world player of the year. In his first real season with Munster he won the pro12 golden boot when coached by Rob Penney. He has speed, a good pass and can play in more than one position. So logically you'd think he would have gotten better and pushed for Ireland selection.


From what I've seen in the last year, he's gotten WORSE. I don't think he has the mentality to play 10 and his kicking game is below average for it.


I think it will be Carbery and Bill Johnstone going forward with JJ a utility squad player. Bleyendaal will likely retire or Munster will likely not renew his contract. I think they've decided that Keatley will be on his way in the next year also. Keatley is a decent player but just lacking the quality needed.

[BlueBlue]

Joey came on and missed a penalty to touch, kicked very poorly out of hand which resulted in significant territory gains for Glasgow in the second half on 3 occasions when Munster had many wasted opportunities and Glasgow need the pressure release, in short his game management let Glasgow off the hook. He runs / glides beautifully, one of the most balanced runners in the game, but he also runs his team up their own arse holes, 2 passes behind team mates, and 2 unsympathetic passes that bounced off forwards who were running good angles and at pace. It wasn't a mare of the magnitude of Leinster V Benetton in the RDS a few months back, or Ulster V Leinster at the tail end of the previous season, which I witnessed in person, but it was on the same road. Against Glasgow considering he only came on in the 45th minute, in game circumstances more favourable to Munster, that's a pretty high error count. Errors aside, he didn't manage the team into the right positions, in fact he let Glasgow off the hook more often than not.

Joey is a natural full back, his talents fit the position. He has the skills to learn to be a good 10, but he is more than a season away. I watch with interest. He's in a bit of a honeymoon period with Munster, that period ended with Leinster very definitely deciding he is not 10. A back up to 10 perhaps, a utility back yes, but a 15 was Leinster conclusion. In my view he could be a 15 of Isa standards. That's no small conclusion from Leo, Stuart and Girvin, the coaching team that know him best and coach him 24/7.

My view is that Carbery, in any side that already has good options at 10, will not be played as a 10 because he is such a good 15. At Leinster there were world class options in Sexton, and an excellent no-2 in Ross Byrne. Ross Byrne is a far better 10 than Carbery. So at Leinster Joey (if he stayed) would have played brilliantly as a 15, developed and would have been a regular starter. At Munster due to mismanagement, bad coaching and a high coach turn over Munster do not have a clear 1st choice starting 10. No 10 at Munster have the qualities to be an International 10, or any where near it. So Joey gets his chance to be a 10, but its only a chance for a player still in development and learning to be a 10, especially when it comes to game management. Joey is taking all the risks when it comes to how this will pan out, Munster a little, but if it works out it will be of benefit to Munster so its worth the risk.

This leads my thinking onto Joe-S, Joe out of all the people involved has reduced his risk, if it works out he has a utility back who is a credible replacement or starting 10 against a tier-2 nation. At the same time, he has other options at 10 who have a whole season to run to make Schmidt question his options / decision . If another player, Ross Byrne for example gets a 10th of a percentage point ahead of Carbery , ruthless Joe will change course without a care for Carbery. That's as it should be, he is as ruthless as that in my view.

If you look at Carberys career, he has had to move on twice because Ross Byrne owned the 10 jersey ahead of him, at UCD he had to move to Clontarf and at Leinster he's had to move to Munster. Joey takes all the risk and Joe watches on with increased opportunity to arrive at seasons end with more options going into the world cup. If it works out for Joey, it will mean he learns to be a 10 in a team where its questionable the team is a match for his talents. Tall order. If it doesn't work out, Munster could turn on him like they turned on Keatley, messy and also a potential car crash. If it is a car crash he wont be in a good position in regard to Irish provincial options nor Ireland. If it works, he'll be at Munster for a long time. Why wouldn't he be. My perspective as a Leinster supporter is that Joey is gone and gone for good.

Why has Joe opted for Carbery and why is Carbery a player who lost the 10 battle with Ross Byrne at Leinster in the driving seat for Ireland no2 ? My answer is timing. 1 year ago Joe didn't have many or more accurately any options. Blyendall, not an option and even when Ireland qualified still not an option. Keatly, no. Madigan probably not, but still an option for a world cup in a desperate situation, but not an option a year ago due to playing 2nd Div and not being in Ireland. JJ, no and Paddy what's his face, possible but a no a year ago and most probably into world cup year. So Sept 2017 and earlier 2 years or more out from a world cup (actually reasonable timing), Joe only had one option and he invested in it. Now that he has invested in it, the Carbery option, he has to maximise the possible chance of that investment paying off. That means Joey is in the driving seat, but there's a year to run. I watch with interest. But right now, Joey playing poorly can do no wrong.