Pro14 R4: Zebre v Leinster Sat 26th Oct 17:15 KO

[riocard911]

Mate we've all seen enough of your posts here to know where your heavy bias lies, so I'll take all of that with a large dollop of salt thanks.

Deegan was poor. Doris was better when he came on and far more aggresive. That's it really.

No pal, that's not it really. Once again, Doris was better than Deegan last Saturday (see, we agree on your main point and have done since the start) but post-match criticism of Deegan on this forum, relative to the whole team, was OTT. It's probably reflective of the fact that we expect more from him based on his very strong season last season.

I am critical of anyone I see playing badly. You are so one-eyed in your ripostes that you wouldn't recognise me being critical of Moikels goys if it blew up in your keyboard.

As I sad already, but you missed, I was equally critical of the pack and half backs last Saturday, with the exception of Molony (& Fardy). That means I am being critical of 4 out of 5 Moikels goys. Let that sink in before you reply, incorrectly, again. I am also calling for Doris to play at 6 ahead of Josh Murphy, an underrated player AND a Moikels goy.

For the record:

- Of course I enjoy the unprecedented and newfound success of so many players coming from Moikels. No school has ever had such numbers of players on the books of a pro team in Ireland, and this from a school half the size of Belvo and Rock that underachieved for the first 30 years it played JCT/SCT. But that doesn't mean I would pick a team of 15 Moikels goys given the chance. If there was a full squad to choose from for the Heineken Cup 1st round this year and everyone is on form, the Moikels goys I would select would be Ryan, Leavy, McGrath (all starting) with Ross Byrne & probably ROL on the bench.

That's 5 out of the 16 on the books that have been capped by Leinster. Not 16 out of 16 and there are 11 Moikels goys I would not select - so go figure with your comments as regards bias. We all have a level of bias, mine is well in check. What I am guilty of is repeatedly pointing that success out. I have dialled that back a fair bit of late but I appreciate that you and others may still be scarred by the experience.

Of the 16, those that I think have strong potential to play for Ireland at least 10 times (in addition to Ryan, Leavy & McGrath) are Deegan, Baird, Penney and Harry Byrne. Harry is the one I feel surest of. Ronan Kelleher might also, but currently I see more potential in Dan Sheehan (not a Moikels goy).

- Finally, as I have said elsewhere, but you have missed/ignored, I think that Leinster rugby is waaaaayyy too dependent on Moikels for the health of the province/club. I also think Moikels are overinvested in rugby for the balance of the school.

You might read the points above again and digest them before diving in with your incorrect commentary.

If you ever want to actually discuss the merits of Doris and Deegan, the positions they are best suited to and how we might keep both of them, then I will be here for that.

I'm not scarred in anyway and have nothing against a bit of old-school rivalry, as long as it doesn't get out of hand!

[Oldschool]

Sexton to start or on the bench, it's a fair question.

Who do you start ahead of Sexton?

Cos it ain't Ross Byrne based on that performance.

Using your criteria (most recent performance) then it ain't Sexton either.

I'd say NZ in a RWC QF is slightly different to Zebre away in the Pro14.

Who would you start then? Harry Byrne? Ciaran Frawley?

Cast your mind back to Sexton's most recent HCC performance when he basically imploded.
RB stepped up to the mark on quite a number of occasions, both in the HCC and the Pro14 last season.
He also performed creditably in the 6Ns.
You ruled RB out with your HB or CF options, I didn't.
Ross Byrne with Sexton on the bench (if fit, that's the problem isn't it?)

Still waiting for your own answers.
Sexton available who would you select to start, who would be on the bench?
Sexton not available, who would you select to start, who would be on the bench?

[Jonny tight lips]

I don’t see this fascination at getting a different type of player at fullback, we have Larmour to slot in there and it looks like Keenan is coming alone nicely as the next man up. Messing around Barrett did New Zealand no good

It worked pretty well for them when they won the last World Cup.

Ben Smith played 15 for that World Cup, don’t think I’ve ever heard of him playing 10, also Barrett was covering 10 from the bench .... where he spent the next few years being considered the best player in the world before somebody got the idea to play him as a second playmaker from 15 this year.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I feel like you're just a WUM at this stage but just to sate my own need for clearing things up...Barrett covered 15 for years and would often come on when they needed to change things up and was lethal from the back. He did it in the final and against us in 2013 along with many others. Smith would move to the wing where his finishing was utilised a bit more.

As much as a second playmaking option is important I think the praise for Hansen making that change is way OTT. Mo'unga was outstanding for the Crusaders, Barrett wasn't consistently hitting the heights of previous years (still played some amazing games) and there was a big question mark over his goal kicking so there were calls for Mo'unga to start. McKenzie wasn't fully trusted at the back and the other options weren't great (Ben Smith has been in decline for a couple of years) so playing them both made sense.

[Jonny tight lips]

I feel like you're just a WUM at this stage but just to sate my own need for clearing things up...Barrett covered 15 for years and would often come on when they needed to change things up and was lethal from the back. He did it in the final and against us in 2013 along with many others. Smith would move to the wing where his finishing was utilised a bit more.

As much as a second playmaking option is important I think the praise for Hansen making that change is way OTT. Mo'unga was outstanding for the Crusaders, Barrett wasn't consistently hitting the heights of previous years (still played some amazing games) and there was a big question mark over his goal kicking so there were calls for Mo'unga to start. McKenzie wasn't fully trusted at the back and the other options weren't great (Ben Smith has been in decline for a couple of years) so playing them both made sense.

The last rugby championship Barrett played as the starting 10 was 2018 and he was exceptional, he picked up man of the match a couple of times and got a beautiful hatrick against the Aussies. I just don’t think moving him to 15 was some inspired decision the rugby world needs to replicate by getting lads with significant experience at 10 to play 15. It wasn’t successful and they downgraded their 10 and had somebody playing 15 who hadn’t been playing there recently. As for leinster I think we should be looking to the likes of Larmour and Keenan to take over from Rob instead of switching other lads. If you think that’s a wind up I’ll just say it isint.

[Pilotman123]

Joey Carbery is Sean O'Brien esque in the amount of rugby he actually plays.

Ross has suffered a loss of confidence after not making the WC squad. He's a fine player and I'd have no problem with him starting big HC games as long as he rediscovers his form.

Gerry Thornley often says - and I think he's right - that all European Cup winning teams have a great outhalf. Farrell, Sexton and Wilkinson have won every title this decade between them. (Beyond that you get the occasional Skrela but broadly the trend holds). The other Irish winners were ROG and Humphreys. Is Ross going to be at that level? And soon? I'm not saying he isn't by the way, Im just asking. I don't think the answer can be an emphatic yes.

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this but since the thread is kinda gone this way; what will Hawkshaw's position and role be?

He’s a fantastic centre just as he is at outhalf, he’s a great ball carrier and good at poaching aswell (he’s like an extra backrow on the pitch) so in the future we’ll probably see him playing 12 outside Harry Byrne as Hawkshaw would be the more aggressive type.

[wixfjord]

Cast your mind back to Sexton's most recent HCC performance when he basically imploded.
RB stepped up to the mark on quite a number of occasions, both in the HCC and the Pro14 last season.
He also performed creditably in the 6Ns.
You ruled RB out with your HB or CF options, I didn't.
Ross Byrne with Sexton on the bench (if fit, that's the problem isn't it?)

Still waiting for your own answers.
Sexton available who would you select to start, who would be on the bench?
Sexton not available, who would you select to start, who would be on the bench?

Eh? Sexton imploded in the Heineken Cup Final did he? In what way.

Clearly I (and more importantly Leo et al) will/would start Sexton against Treviso unless he's injured. He's our club captain and one of our best players. You've weirdly been giving out about him and bigging up RB (who's a fine player in poor enough form) for Ireland for quite a while for some reason.

Byrne was really poor at the weekend in a game he should've taken by the scruff of the neck. If he is to really challenge Sexton for the #1 spot he'll need to improve a lot.

[wixfjord]

Once again, Doris was better than Deegan last Saturday (see, we agree on your main point and have done since the start) but post-match criticism of Deegan on this forum, relative to the whole team, was OTT.

Was it? Can you point out where the 'criticism was OTT' at all?

Might it be the case that a guy you see to want to big up at every occasion (aren't you trying to be Twitter mates with him too?!) played poorly and you wanted to have a little dig back?

another long winded post about a school I attended decades ago

Right well I'm not going to touch the rest of that ego trip with a bargepole! Hopefully a real rogby goy might be able to parse it for me.

[CiaranIrl]

This is a long match thread considering the game might well have been the shittest win in the history of Leinster.

[Jonny tight lips]

This is a long match thread considering the game might well have been the shittest win in the history of Leinster.

Imagine if it was a draw

[Pilotman123]

Why are some people spelling Michael’s as “Moikels and guys as “ goys” it’s extremely cringy, no one from D4 sounds like that, we sound normal.

[Pilotman123]

And no one from D4 says rugby as “rogby”

[FLIP]

You're just not a real rugby goy otherwise you'd just know loike.

[Pilotman123]

You're just not a real rugby goy otherwise you'd just know loike.

Oh behave, I was in Michael’s since junior infants and played rugby the whole way up

[Pilotman123]

I think you’re just being a bit OTT with the way we sound

[Oldschool]

Simple solution.
Remove the marbles from your mouths.

[backrower8]

Was it? Can you point out where the 'criticism was OTT' at all? [Yes. Hint, they are in the thread posts. Read them

Might it be the case that a guy you see to want to big up at every occasion (aren't you trying to be Twitter mates with him too?!) [What a pathetic remark] played poorly and you wanted to have a little dig back? Fact: I don’t big him up on every occasion. On this occasion I said that he was as poor as everyone else bar Molony, but your agenda doesn’t allow you see that.

another long winded post about a school I attended decades ago

That’s not even a line from anything I have said on this thread - what are you at cutting and pasting things in out of context?

Right well I'm not going to touch the rest of that ego trip with a bargepole! Hopefully a real rogby goy might be able to parse it for me.

Ego trip? Based on what? We were cr@p in my day. Won nothing. You are just a snide individual.

Happy to debate rugby with you when you leave your baggage at the door pal.

[OTT]

Was it? Can you point out where the 'criticism was OTT' at all?

Ah like there was so much of it and it was absolutely outrageous to be fair, full of vitriol and malice.

Not for the faint hearted...

Show Spoiler:

Deegan slow to get back in the line and also missed a tackle later on, really disappointing performance from him.

Backrow fairly non-existent too.

The back row in particular need to be far more involved close in.

That is f%~king atrocious from Deegan in the lineout.

Purely down to not concentrating.

Stuff like that must drive Leo mad.

Deegan slow to get back in the line and also missed a tackle later on, really disappointing performance from him.

Our back row are shockingly poor this evening

Not surprised to see Deegan off after that. These are the type of games he should be dominating in but looked asleep. Immediately Doris makes an impact.

Huge missed opportunity for Deegan, it's hard not to see Doris being ahead of him after this. Bryan Byrne probably slipped further behind Kelleher too. JGP and Ross Byrne have more credit in the bank but still so disappointing to see them play so poorly.

Outrageous stuff

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I've reported my own posts.

[the spoofer]

Deegan had an awful game which was a real disappointment for those of us banging the drum for him. So were are two halfbacks and Kelleher. The only back to come out with credit was Keenan.