Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

[Oldschool]

Munster's game against Racing was like a throw back to bad old days of the Ireland international teams playing against the French.
Munster gave it everything for 60 minutes and then ran out of steam as Racing blew them away in the last 20.
In addition Munster didn't help themselves with those two passes out the back to nowhere.
The moral of that story is twofold.
When you are in front or the game is tight cut out the fancy stuff, particularly if there is no supporting evidence that you have that ability.
Secondly a man has got to know his limitations.
It's also noteworthy that the French teams fitness levels have improved since last season.
The notion that if you stick with them for the first 65 then they will run out of steam doesn't seem to apply anymore.
Ireland's game in Paris could be a tough one.

[offshorerules]

Teddy's try was fine, it's just the standard reaction down at Shelbyville to try and blame someone or something other than their players. We can be guilty of it at times I seem to remember, its been a while.

[Dave Cahill]

Looking at the Racing 4th try. Lovely slow-mo of Imhoff crossing the line from a camera in the very corner were Thomas had scored a few mins earlier. Why did they not show us that angle for Teddy's try?
I'd hate to think that any shennanigans were going on with hometown TV directors.

Because it wasn't pointing at it, it was pointing at where the kick came from. In the replay you can see the camera man swinging his camera around to try to get there, but when the ball is touched down, he hasn't quite managed it

[blockhead]

Wow! Well spotted.

[blockhead]

Post match comments:
POM

“This group has always had huge belief and you talk financially but we always have something different in that we have a huge group of players who have come from the province and who have come through our academy system,” said captain Peter O’Mahony yesterday.
“It always has made a difference and we’ve always complemented that by signing some excellent players from overseas and we have that mix now, and that’s always a dangerous mix, the guys who we have here and signing well, which we have done.”
“That’s what makes our club special, what I’ve just said… They didn’t all come from Racing. It’s a different dynamic

That's just plain oul mis-information at this stage.

Van gram.

I am never a man to make excuses but unfortunately one or two guys are injured at this stage

Munster are 19th in tries scored in the group phase so far with 8 in 5 games.

[Laighin Break]

I saw POM's post-match comments, and my first thought was that he's ignoring the players they've poached from other provinces. Or maybe he doesn't think they've complemented the team.

[Oldschool]

POM has hit the nail on the head TBF to him.
Quantity isn't Munster's problem, they've a "huge group" of players, but quality is and that's implicit in what he is saying.
Obviously he's not going to come right out with it but he's basically implying that while the academy is producing enough players they are not of the right quality.
That's pointing the finger at the coaching system and a lack of willingness to blood them and give them the experience that they need.
It's worth bearing in mind that Joe Schmidt and Stuart are both exceptional coaches and we're lucky to have them. We might not be so smug if we hadn't been so "lucky" to have recruited them.
Part of me feels sorry for the likes of POM who gives it everything even though he knows better than we do that Munster have been let down by management.

[FLIP]

Part of me feels sorry for the likes of POM who gives it everything

Does he though? Highlight reels and angry face aside, the stats don't lie.

[Oldschool]

Part of me feels sorry for the likes of POM who gives it everything

Does he though? Highlight reels and angry face aside, the stats don't lie.

Ah here now you don't want to let a few stats get in the way of a good narrative.

[dropkick]

Part of me feels sorry for the likes of POM who gives it everything

Does he though? Highlight reels and angry face aside, the stats don't lie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamLStandsUp ... 6409125888

[ronk]

Part of me feels sorry for the likes of POM who gives it everything

Does he though? Highlight reels and angry face aside, the stats don't lie.

Ah here now you don't want to let a few stats get in the way of a good narrative.

Did you check the stats or are you guessing?

10 tackles and 10 carries is nothing special, but it's hardly damning.

[Oldschool]

Did you check the stats or are you guessing?

10 tackles and 10 carries is nothing special, but it's hardly damning.

Of course I didn't.
I've stated many times that stats are meaningless unless you know how to interpret them.
People who truly understand stats are rare and extremely well paid as a result. I don't and never have claimed to be one of those people.
My regard for POM is also well documented.
He didn't make my 23 for the forthcoming 6Ns game against Scotland.
For what it's worth he didn't make my RWC squad either.
In conclusion perhaps we need a "crocodile tears" smiley.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Part of me feels sorry for the likes of POM who gives it everything

Does he though? Highlight reels and angry face aside, the stats don't lie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamLStandsUp ... 6409125888

Yeah, I’ve seen that graphic what does it mean - what is being measured ?

[fourthirtythree]

Sam Larner
@SamLStandsUp
·
Jan 9
Not quite. Defence includes tackles, turnovers, lineout steals, and removes points for missed tackles. SOme are weighted.
Attack is metres made, tries, try assists, passes, offloads etc again some are weighted.

What's being measures is Sam's biases. That's all, he's multiplied his biases by a bumch of player stats.

[Oldschool]

Part of me feels sorry for the likes of POM who gives it everything

Does he though? Highlight reels and angry face aside, the stats don't lie.

Said this before but POM's main issue is one of stamina.
He doesn't IMHO have the kind of work horse stamina that your typical 6 has.
He's like Rocky, good at the big play but not able to do the unseen work for 80 minutes that a CJ or Ruddock gives you.
So on that basis he gives what he's able to.

[tomthefan]

Strength in depth did for us imo, we didn't have good enough replacements. Still though, if that game had been in Limerick we'd have won. No criticism of wayne Barnes implied there but even the best referees cant help but give the home team the benefit of the doubt more often than not. Happy to give this coaching team a couple of more years. Enjoy the schadenfreude while it lasts

[OTT]

Still though, if that game had been in Limerick we'd have won.

That game was in Limerick in November and you didn’t win. The results in the fortress are why you are almost out.

[ronk]

Still though, if that game had been in Limerick we'd have won.

That game was in Limerick in November and you didn’t win. The results in the fortress are why you are almost out.

Nov was affected by their RWC hangover. Sure evenone had one, they got it wrong and they had less margin for error than most.

I still have some questions about van Graan aside from that. They had a good chance as long as the game was tight.

[Laighin Break]

Munster rumoured to be interested in signing (Irish qualified) Gallagher from Saracens. They don't need a fullback though so this would mean shunted development for Daly or another up and comer.

[ChrisUppy]

Sam Larner
@SamLStandsUp
·
Jan 9
Not quite. Defence includes tackles, turnovers, lineout steals, and removes points for missed tackles. SOme are weighted.
Attack is metres made, tries, try assists, passes, offloads etc again some are weighted.

What's being measures is Sam's biases. That's all, he's multiplied his biases by a bumch of player stats.

Exactly, as soon as you add some mysterious weighting then those stats become opinion.

JvDF made more carries, more meters, more clean breaks and beat more defenders over the course of the tournament than POM (not even accounting for the fact that VdF didn't feature vs. Russia where as POM played in all with one sub appearance) yet POM lands higher on the attack "score"... Similarly in defence he made more tackles, misses fewer tackles, conceded fewer penalties...