A whiff of Cordite

[The Doc]

Correct but he throws around the term quite a lot without alluding to what he means. It’s a vague way of praising a players ability without getting into the specifics. Question still stands

Think you need to direct your question to @sullyirishtimes

[johng]

You can prove anything with facts

I find facts cloud my judgement, I prefer to rely on instinct and blind prejudice

[joooooe]

I’d have ranked BOD and McCaw very highly but talent is more something I tend to associate with backs. McCaw was more of a dogged player. Yes good jumpers throwers and scrummagers can be classed as skilful or talented but it is a term more often than not reserved for backs.

I suppose I just wanted to get an outline of what he means when he uses the term as it is very vague and broad without giving specifics about a group of players‘ skillsets.

What sets this group or any individual from the pack? By my reasoning none of them are super fast or super big. So the talent must be in relation to other areas of their games or in relation to their ability compared to other players around the country? Greater numbers don’t make for better players always.

The point about Carlin Isles is a valid one. Obviously worse as he didn’t achieve as much but maybe in another country he could have been a great. Speed tends to paper over many shortcomings in players’ games and gives them a chance to make up for mistakes. Speedsters tend to be labelled as talented because they can go around players. I would usually label a speedster talented.

My definition of talent is the ability to do things on the pitch very few other players can do. Without making this about me I’d like to get Mildlys view on what makes these players talented as I don’t know enough about them.

I would have thought "talent" relates to a player's natural ability - nature rather than nurture. As such, Cian Healy is a very talented prop and Jordan Larmour is a very talented winger/full back.

[Serb]

I see Gerry has another of his love-in articles about his beloved "Munster" in today's Times. I won't quote the populist dribble, as you've heard most of it before.

Ah I actually thought his article was mostly fine, though it must get discouraging reading the same, “No, this year we’ll be good” / “Well, if they hadn’t scored the 5 tries then we would have beaten them by a point, so we’re actually doing really well” article every 12 months.

[ronk]

Turns out is a direct quote, first 2 paragraphs in the article
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4302638

Possibly why he wrote this underneath.

from the IT today..

Correct but he throws around the term quite a lot without alluding to what he means. It’s a vague way of praising a players ability without getting into the specifics. Question still stands

from the IT today... ?

It’s short for Irish Times, an abbreviation not a pronoun.

[mildlyinterested]

Possibly why he wrote this underneath.

Correct but he throws around the term quite a lot without alluding to what he means. It’s a vague way of praising a players ability without getting into the specifics. Question still stands

from the IT today... ?

It’s short for Irish Times, an abbreviation not a pronoun.

He is saying I throw around the term talented around without explaining what I mean.

talent
/ˈtalənt/
noun
1.
natural aptitude or skill.

[Oldschoolsocks]

I think he was looking for a conversation, nice one mildly...

[Dwarf]

Correct but he throws around the term quite a lot without alluding to what he means. It’s a vague way of praising a players ability without getting into the specifics. Question still stands

from the IT today... ?

It’s short for Irish Times, an abbreviation not a pronoun.

He is saying I throw around the term talented around without explaining what I mean.

talent
/ˈtalənt/
noun
1.
natural aptitude or skill.

Yes but I guess what I’m getting at is what specific skills they possess. Just saying the are naturally better without giving reason or explanation comes across as subjective.

[Up Wexford]

It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.

Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.

Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.

[Dwarf]

It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.

Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.

Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.

Soroka is an interesting one. He’s an all rounder can do a bit of everything. I think he’ll be future 6 for Leinster in maybe 4 or 5 years time. Could be sooner. Might never happen if he doesn’t do the work but the talent is there and plain to see.

McCarthy looks like a very good promotion he impressed me no end on the Ireland U 20’s last Season. He has a bit of ballast which is what you need in your second row.

This is all bearing in mind they are 19/20 year olds - it might not translate but the signs are promising

[OTT]

It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.

Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.

Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.

Soroka is an interesting one. He’s an all rounder can do a bit of everything. I think he’ll be future 6 for Leinster in maybe 4 or 5 years time. Could be sooner. Might never happen if he doesn’t do the work but the talent is there and plain to see.

What ability does he have to do things on the pitch that very few other players can do?

What specific skills does he possess?

[Oldschoolsocks]

Well if he’s a forward he probably isn’t talented at all ??

[Up Wexford]

[Dwarf]

It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.

Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.

Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.

Soroka is an interesting one. He’s an all rounder can do a bit of everything. I think he’ll be future 6 for Leinster in maybe 4 or 5 years time. Could be sooner. Might never happen if he doesn’t do the work but the talent is there and plain to see.

What ability does he have to do things on the pitch that very few other players can do?

What specific skills does he possess?

Top class lineout operator, good carrier, good athlete as in is stronger and faster than most. He’s also very versatile because of athleticism I imagine he could play anywhere in the back five of the forwards.

That’s more than Mildly will give you. He just says talented and expects it to be fact!

[Ruckedtobits]

Excellent hands i.e. catching the ball and passing it to a team-mate;
Explosive acceleration and running balance over 15m i.e. runs away from effective tackles;
Good tackler on both sides i.e. he can tackle opponents with his right & left shoulders;
Reads the game well i.e. he anticipates where to support and where to defend earlier than most.

Defining talent is like parsing poetry. It should be prohibited on the grounds of good taste.

[Dwarf]

Excellent hands i.e. catching the ball and passing it to a team-mate;
Explosive acceleration and running balance over 15m i.e. runs away from effective tackles;
Good tackler on both sides i.e. he can tackle opponents with his right & left shoulders;
Reads the game well i.e. he anticipates where to support and where to defend earlier than most.

Defining talent is like parsing poetry. It should be prohibited on the grounds of good taste.

So should spouting opinions as if they were facts.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Excellent hands i.e. catching the ball and passing it to a team-mate;
Explosive acceleration and running balance over 15m i.e. runs away from effective tackles;
Good tackler on both sides i.e. he can tackle opponents with his right & left shoulders;
Reads the game well i.e. he anticipates where to support and where to defend earlier than most.

Defining talent is like parsing poetry. It should be prohibited on the grounds of good taste.

So should spouting opinions as if they were facts.

Dunno small man. Apart from his emoji work, which I am not a fan of, he’s a top class contributor to the site.

[CiaranIrl]

Dunno, I’m definitely not a fan of his emoji work, apart from that he’s a top class contributor to the site.

This place has become seriously tetchy of late. Mildly adds a huge amount to this site. I wish some others would give it a rest with the school bullshit.

[mildlyinterested]

Another Munster love letter from GT: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4309119

[SoupyNorman]

Another Munster love letter from GT: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4309119

First European Cup game was against Swansea; not Saracens; as Gerry states. Probably just a typo. Sure the English clubs didn't even compete that year. Also; if only that last minute penalty wasn't conceded or missed by the All Blacks at Musgrave Park in 1973 to secure a 3-3 draw; the whole folklore could have been a hell of a lot different.